Should the Old firm take more responsibility for the bigotry in Scotland?

Question

After browsing through some of the open question s regarding Scottish football I was surprised by the amount of bile being exchanged between Old Firm 'fans'
Surely these fanatics are so strongly obsessed by their own respective teams, only the club's themselves have the ability to change the fanatics horrible attitudes.
Do Celtic and Rangers hold the key to solving Scotland's bigotry problem and are they failing Scottish society by failing to do so?

Answer 1

Bigotry in Scotland....surely you jest?



Just look at a couple of the comments from above to see what kind of animal we are dealing with here.

Answer 2

I'm none too sure what else they can do.



They advertise against racism and bigotry with both teams involved in the same campaigns. The teams are no longer bound along the lines of Catholics for Celtic and Protestants for Rangers and have not been for quite some time.



They've banned sectarian songs or sectarian chanting at matches under the threat of a lifetime ban for any fan convicted of it, and that's frankly about all they can do. Although they're getting a bit ridiculous; when a chant went around 'you can all go home to Ireland, the famine's over,' the press and the teams howled and it was national news. Head off down south, and there was a chant which was similar in style 'You can all go home, the Holocaust's over.' And all it got was 'ooh, that's a bit nasty, but it's football so it's just banter.'



It will take many years to get all the bigots out of Scotland; the football clubs have taken an enforced lead but attitudes in the wider area will need to change further. That said, it's a rather unhealthy Scottish habit to find things to beat ourselves up with.



And just for the guy who says it's always the Irish angle, try working in any industrial area and see the grafitti in the bogs. One side is just as culpable as the other.

Answer 3

I really think it has more to do with Scottish Society. It's clearly been around since the days of the reformation, Mary Queen of Scots, John Knox etc



I'm positive there are more bigots that are not part of the 50,000 at Ibrox or 60,000 at Parkhead every week, so what could Rangers and Celtic possibly do. The teams are not the problem, they are just part of the problem, they are just like a badge, which (not in all cases) is worn to signify your slant or take on things, Protestants leaning towards Rangers and Catholics towards Celtic. All the clubs can try and do is eradicate sectarian behaviour from their grounds, around their grounds and by removing season tickets.



Maybe they could do even more to help tackle these problems within the community (especially in the West) and with the police, the government or education.



I see the key to changing things, has to be done in the home, in the community and in society in general. Children aren't brought up to be bigots, it is instilled in them through parents, communities, peer pressure and sadly the way Scotland is, that we let religion divide (some of) us. Maybe Celtic and Rangers could do more in these areas, but unfortunatley they are just merely another vessel, for the bigots to channel their hate and venom at each other.

Answer 4

Bigotry was around in Scotland long before the Old Firm so I fail to see how they can take that responsibility. Bigots aren't born they are bred. Bigotry is not a football phenomenon and not caused by the game in general. It is the people who sit back and do nothing that are as much to blame so Yahoo should monitor this section for a while themselves then take whatever steps necessary to stamp it out.

Answer 5

These people aren't fans of the Old Firm, they just use the Old Firm as an excuse to let out their anger and aggression.

Anyone who sends death threats to a rival team player and throws a brick through another's window is in dire need of help - the Old Firm is irrelevant.



So, no, I don't think the Old Firm is to blame for these incidents. It is used as a mere excuse for the attacks so they don't have to solve the real problem.



"Surely these fanatics are so strongly obsessed by their own respective teams, only the club's themselves have the ability to change the fanatics horrible attitudes."



- Wrong.

Only a psychiatrist can change their horrible attitudes.

Answer 6

Like Bluebell says the emphasis is on the individual rather than the clubs. both Rangers and Celtic are actively trying to get their respective clubs to go forward in the fight against bigotry, they should be commended rather than slated for their efforts. In the end it comes down to the individual they have to stand up and be counted if we are to eradicate the bigotry out of the game

Answer 7

Well should they, well of course they should but they wont. I mean looking at the crap ive heard coming from teams we play (not just rankers) and its swept under the table. How many times did the famine song get sung before Rangers were forced to do something, or the abuse McGeady gets at Tynecastle, fenian this and fenian that. I know I'll be called a liar but I see Celtic doing more to stop it than the other clubs do. I mean in this day and age cctv and computers it would be easy to find culprits and ban all sectarianism but they dont. Its like everything else in this world, they wait until something happens before the take steps to stop it.

Answer 8

Nothing to do with the old firm as they would just go elsewhere if they could not spew there bigoted bile look at the parents is where you should start as NO CHILD IS BORN A BIGOT ?

Answer 9

Rangers are a club built on bigotry. Bigotry is within the soul of this club and a majority of the people who support it.

They removed eggs benedict from the menu's when Pope Benedict XVI came in to office, that says it all.

Answer 10

I don't know what Celtic and Rangers would do to prevent it?





It doesn't help if you come here for a normal football discussion and you get a Rangers fans saying:



"Why were the Celtic Fans flying Irish Flags" (even though they fly and ulster, lol



or a Celtic Fan (Gio) saying



"Thanks to our Irish boys for downing Rangers"



It's all the Irish **** that kicks it off every flipping time

And it's an ongoing argument because people want to fight their corner

Answer 11

I think you are taking a very juvenile view of things if you think it is only as deep as football.



You have missed the whole part about invading countries, stealing land, persecution for religious beliefs, denial of employment on religious grounds, murdering the population, restricting movement, suppressing art and opinions and I haven't even left Scotland yet in this observation, the same has been done in Ireland in the name of the crown, queen and country.



The loyalists have their gripes also, like we are catholic, we eat potatoes, we helped build their country, we fought side by side in wars, we go to mass, but as you will notice it has nothing to do with football and football has nothing to do with it, so why do you expect football clubs to be able to wipe out hundreds of years of divide and lies is beyond reckoning.

Answer 12

think the clubs have done all they can. If you think its bad now you should have heard it a few years ago it was disgraceful i was even ashamed to admit i was from this country. its a cultural problem and its basically rammed into most kids from birth (if your a supporter of any of these teams).

Answer 13

CAINE, you are absolutely 100% spot-on.



What annoys me most about this is the number of people who do not know the facts and take the easy option of saying "one side's as bad as the other".



Fact - 7 Celtic fans were murdered by Rangers fans after old firm games (plus one after a Celtic-Thistle game) between 1995-2002, including cup finals won by Rangers.



Celtic do have fans that can resort to violence, but it is clear far more Rangers fans display violence and far more frequently. Attacks by Protestants on Catholics in Scotland are 9 times more frequent than the other way around.



And we all know the sick, disgusting things Rangers fans seem obsessed with and even sing about - FAMINE, PAEDOPHILIA (and it's victims) AND THE MURDER OF CATHOLICS.



People go on about Celtic fans glorifying republican paramilitaries who kill innocent people. I do think songs and chants like these should not be sung at games because politics should be kept away from stadia as much as possible and it can embarrass the club by giving people ammo to have a go at the club who don't really understand (or don't want to understand) what these songs are really about.



When songs such as "The Boys of the Old Brigade" are song (very rare at Celtic games nowadays), the I.R.A. referred to are the Irish volunteer fighters who fought a war of independence against Britain in an attempt to escape centuries of oppression, murder, confiscation of land, etc, etc. Ultimately, the British, for centuries, had forced their culture, laws and religion upon the Irish people, as well as stealing their land and colonising it with the Plantations, which are the major cause of the trouble that persists to this day. So, were the Irish people expected to lie down to Britain and accept this horrible fate forever? I don't think so. Remember Rangers fans have strong links to UVF, UDA, LVF, etc, who are nothing other than drug-dealing, sectarian murderers with NO cause other than the blind hatred of Catholics.



My point is, although I feel Celtic F.C. would be better off without these songs being sung, they are folk songs celebrating freedom against an evil, tyrannical ruler. Rangers fans, on the other hand, sing about people dying in a famine (which Britain had the power to prevent, which they have since admitted and apologised for), about the murder of Catholics, about child abuse, and almost every song has the witty line "**** the Pope" thrown in, just to offend the billion or so followers of the world's biggest religion!



And the amount of times Rangers fans have caused trouble all over Europe and in particular, ironically, their beloved England! The two recent UEFA Cup finals sum it up perfectly - Celtic, 80-100,000 fans in Seville, zero arrests, fair play awards from both UEFA and FIFA, brilliant ambassadors for Scotland. Rangers, 100-150,000 fans in Manchester; well I don't have to tell you the rest.



PS I just read in the Evening Times there about a Celtic fan fighting for life in hospital after being jumped by Rangers fans in Wishaw.



For the record, I KNOW most Rangers fans are decent and normal, all I am saying is that they have a far greater proportion among their ranks who are violent and glorify the most outrageous things when,really, their cause is a phoney one based on hatred for Catholics and all things green.

Answer 14

Both sides have their bigots.

Then again, both sides have their sane fans.

It is just the fact that the bigots are the ones who do the shouting.

"Empty vessels make the most noise".

Answer 15

i wouldn't say ALL of the Old firm fans...but some of them are ridiculously idiotic...The clubs cant and wont ever change these ppl.

Answer 16

I have no interest at all in Celtic or Rangers.

They are simply different sides of the same rotten coin.

Answer 17

its not the old firm as such to blame but individuals.....we need to stop putting the blame with either side and admit both teams have their moronic element....not going to happen for a long time sadly...



admit yet again today i got caught up in it all.....fed up with some and their holier than thou attitude..when will i ever learn..

Answer 18

According to some, bigotory only exists at Ibrox.



Anyone with an ounce of sense knows better - just read some of the sh1te written above.

Answer 19

Not while Murray and Co' encourage it and allow bigoted filth like Findlay to crawl into Ibrox and the tiny minority put up with the majorities filth and bile on match days.

You wont hear it at Parkhead.

Answer 20

The bigots are responsible for bigotry, People who are offended by bigotry are bigots, no-one else.

Answer 21

They're dinosaurs living in the past it's high time the woke up and grew up

Answer 22

lol its a joke. I'm from Glasgow but don't even go in the football section because its full of idiots.

Answer 23

bow down to the huns ya traitor.